diff --git a/DOCS/interface-changes/geometry-behavior.txt b/DOCS/interface-changes/geometry-behavior.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000000..cab61a830a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/DOCS/interface-changes/geometry-behavior.txt
@@ -0,0 +1 @@
+change `--geometry` so that it no longer unconditionally moves the window on platforms where that is possible. Use `--force-window-position` or add `+50%+50%` to your geometry command to get the old behavior back.
diff --git a/options/m_option.c b/options/m_option.c
index a6f8bcd45c..51e08c21e8 100644
--- a/options/m_option.c
+++ b/options/m_option.c
@@ -2219,10 +2219,6 @@ void m_geometry_apply(int *xpos, int *ypos, int *widw, int *widh,
         } else if (!(gm->w > 0) && gm->h > 0) {
             *widw = *widh * asp;
         }
-        // Center window after resize. If valid x:y values are passed to
-        // geometry, then those values will be overridden.
-        *xpos += prew / 2 - *widw / 2;
-        *ypos += preh / 2 - *widh / 2;
     }
 
     if (gm->xy_valid) {
diff --git a/video/out/mac/common.swift b/video/out/mac/common.swift
index 664665166d..dcab914f2c 100644
--- a/video/out/mac/common.swift
+++ b/video/out/mac/common.swift
@@ -426,7 +426,7 @@ class Common: NSObject {
                                         y1: Int32(originY + rv.size.height))
 
         var geo: vo_win_geometry = vo_win_geometry()
-        vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenRC, &screenRC, Double(screen.backingScaleFactor), &geo)
+        vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenRC, &screenRC, Double(screen.backingScaleFactor), false, &geo)
         vo_apply_window_geometry(vo, &geo)
 
         let height = CGFloat(geo.win.y1 - geo.win.y0)
diff --git a/video/out/vo_sdl.c b/video/out/vo_sdl.c
index 6680a7cef8..cce07d3d7d 100644
--- a/video/out/vo_sdl.c
+++ b/video/out/vo_sdl.c
@@ -453,7 +453,7 @@ static int reconfig(struct vo *vo, struct mp_image_params *params)
     struct mp_rect screenrc;
 
     update_screeninfo(vo, &screenrc);
-    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenrc, &screenrc, 1.0, &geo);
+    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenrc, &screenrc, 1.0, false, &geo);
     vo_apply_window_geometry(vo, &geo);
 
     int win_w = vo->dwidth;
diff --git a/video/out/w32_common.c b/video/out/w32_common.c
index 027c542f54..73c0f9f838 100644
--- a/video/out/w32_common.c
+++ b/video/out/w32_common.c
@@ -1920,7 +1920,7 @@ static void window_reconfig(struct vo_w32_state *w32, bool force)
     if (w32->dpi_scale == 0)
         force_update_display_info(w32);
 
-    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screen, &mon, w32->dpi_scale, &geo);
+    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screen, &mon, w32->dpi_scale, false, &geo);
     vo_apply_window_geometry(vo, &geo);
 
     bool reset_size = ((w32->o_dwidth != vo->dwidth ||
diff --git a/video/out/wayland_common.c b/video/out/wayland_common.c
index e691c957a8..e95730596c 100644
--- a/video/out/wayland_common.c
+++ b/video/out/wayland_common.c
@@ -2320,7 +2320,7 @@ static void set_geometry(struct vo_wayland_state *wl, bool resize)
 
     struct vo_win_geometry geo;
     struct mp_rect screenrc = wl->current_output->geometry;
-    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenrc, &screenrc, wl->scaling_factor, &geo);
+    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &screenrc, &screenrc, wl->scaling_factor, false, &geo);
     vo_apply_window_geometry(vo, &geo);
 
     int gcd = greatest_common_divisor(vo->dwidth, vo->dheight);
diff --git a/video/out/win_state.c b/video/out/win_state.c
index c30c257b24..435c9a090f 100644
--- a/video/out/win_state.c
+++ b/video/out/win_state.c
@@ -74,14 +74,17 @@ static void apply_autofit(int *w, int *h, int scr_w, int scr_h,
 //  monitor: position of the monitor on virtual desktop (used for pixelaspect).
 //  dpi_scale: the DPI multiplier to get from virtual to real coordinates
 //             (>1 for "hidpi")
+//  force_center: force centering x/y in the middle of the given screen even if
+//                opts->force_window_position is not set. ignored if the user
+//                supplies valid x/y coordinates on their own.
 // Use vo_apply_window_geometry() to copy the result into the vo.
 // NOTE: currently, all windowing backends do their own handling of window
 //       geometry additional to this code. This is to deal with initial window
 //       placement, fullscreen handling, avoiding resize on reconfig() with no
 //       size change, multi-monitor stuff, and possibly more.
 void vo_calc_window_geometry(struct vo *vo, const struct mp_rect *screen,
-                             const struct mp_rect *monitor,
-                             double dpi_scale, struct vo_win_geometry *out_geo)
+                             const struct mp_rect *monitor, double dpi_scale,
+                             bool force_center, struct vo_win_geometry *out_geo)
 {
     struct mp_vo_opts *opts = vo->opts;
 
@@ -121,15 +124,24 @@ void vo_calc_window_geometry(struct vo *vo, const struct mp_rect *screen,
 
     out_geo->win.x0 = (int)(scr_w - d_w) / 2;
     out_geo->win.y0 = (int)(scr_h - d_h) / 2;
+
+    int old_w = d_w;
+    int old_h = d_h;
+
     m_geometry_apply(&out_geo->win.x0, &out_geo->win.y0, &d_w, &d_h,
                      scr_w, scr_h, &opts->geometry);
 
+    if ((opts->force_window_position || force_center) && !opts->geometry.xy_valid) {
+        out_geo->win.x0 += old_w / 2 - d_w / 2;
+        out_geo->win.y0 += old_h / 2 - d_h / 2;
+    }
+
     out_geo->win.x0 += screen->x0;
     out_geo->win.y0 += screen->y0;
     out_geo->win.x1 = out_geo->win.x0 + d_w;
     out_geo->win.y1 = out_geo->win.y0 + d_h;
 
-    if (opts->geometry.xy_valid || opts->force_window_position)
+    if (opts->geometry.xy_valid || opts->force_window_position || force_center)
         out_geo->flags |= VO_WIN_FORCE_POS;
 }
 
diff --git a/video/out/win_state.h b/video/out/win_state.h
index b91e174b18..f19a15618b 100644
--- a/video/out/win_state.h
+++ b/video/out/win_state.h
@@ -24,8 +24,8 @@ struct vo_win_geometry {
 };
 
 void vo_calc_window_geometry(struct vo *vo, const struct mp_rect *screen,
-                             const struct mp_rect *monitor,
-                             double dpi_scale, struct vo_win_geometry *out_geo);
+                             const struct mp_rect *monitor, double dpi_scale,
+                             bool force_center, struct vo_win_geometry *out_geo);
 void vo_apply_window_geometry(struct vo *vo, const struct vo_win_geometry *geo);
 
 #endif
diff --git a/video/out/x11_common.c b/video/out/x11_common.c
index 373c5bd6cb..0bda5ce95c 100644
--- a/video/out/x11_common.c
+++ b/video/out/x11_common.c
@@ -1809,7 +1809,7 @@ void vo_x11_config_vo_window(struct vo *vo)
     vo_x11_update_screeninfo(vo);
 
     struct vo_win_geometry geo;
-    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &x11->screenrc, &x11->screenrc, x11->dpi_scale, &geo);
+    vo_calc_window_geometry(vo, &x11->screenrc, &x11->screenrc, x11->dpi_scale, false, &geo);
     vo_apply_window_geometry(vo, &geo);
 
     struct mp_rect rc = geo.win;