diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.cc
index d77ffde8864..7b130c71216 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.cc
@@ -28,6 +28,24 @@ Cache::~Cache()
   ceph_assert(extents.empty());
 }
 
+Cache::retire_extent_ret Cache::retire_extent_if_cached(
+  Transaction &t, paddr_t addr)
+{
+  if (auto ext = t.write_set.find_offset(addr); ext != t.write_set.end()) {
+    t.add_to_retired_set(CachedExtentRef(&*ext));
+    return retire_extent_ertr::now();
+  } else if (auto iter = extents.find_offset(addr);
+      iter != extents.end()) {
+    auto ret = CachedExtentRef(&*iter);
+    return ret->wait_io().then([&t, ret=std::move(ret)]() mutable {
+      t.add_to_retired_set(ret);
+      return retire_extent_ertr::now();
+    });
+  } else {
+    return retire_extent_ertr::now();
+  }
+}
+
 void Cache::add_extent(CachedExtentRef ref)
 {
   assert(ref->is_valid());
@@ -187,10 +205,16 @@ void Cache::complete_commit(
   for (auto &i: t.fresh_block_list) {
     i->set_paddr(cur);
     cur.offset += i->get_length();
-    i->state = CachedExtent::extent_state_t::CLEAN;
     i->last_committed_crc = i->get_crc32c();
-    logger().debug("complete_commit: fresh {}", *i);
     i->on_initial_write();
+
+    if (!i->is_valid()) {
+      logger().debug("complete_commit: invalid {}", *i);
+      continue;
+    }
+
+    i->state = CachedExtent::extent_state_t::CLEAN;
+    logger().debug("complete_commit: fresh {}", *i);
     add_extent(i);
   }
 
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.h
index d8859b3e7fb..a31e044e1d6 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cache.h
@@ -90,6 +90,13 @@ public:
     t.add_to_retired_set(ref);
   }
 
+  /// Declare paddr retired in t, noop if not cached
+  using retire_extent_ertr = crimson::errorator<
+    crimson::ct_error::input_output_error>;
+  using retire_extent_ret = retire_extent_ertr::future<>;
+  retire_extent_ret retire_extent_if_cached(
+    Transaction &t, paddr_t addr);
+
   /**
    * get_root
    *
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.cc
index cbe730871e6..7019b9fb802 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.cc
@@ -65,6 +65,17 @@ CachedExtent::~CachedExtent()
   }
 }
 
+std::ostream &LogicalCachedExtent::print_detail(std::ostream &out) const
+{
+  out << ", laddr=" << laddr;
+  if (pin) {
+    out << ", pin=" << *pin;
+  } else {
+    out << ", pin=empty";
+  }
+  return print_detail_l(out);
+}
+
 std::ostream &operator<<(std::ostream &out, const LBAPin &rhs)
 {
   return out << "LBAPin(" << rhs.get_laddr() << "~" << rhs.get_length()
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.h
index 6de468ffb94..6ae87f83cbb 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/cached_extent.h
@@ -566,8 +566,13 @@ public:
   bool is_logical() const final {
     return true;
   }
+
+  std::ostream &print_detail(std::ostream &out) const final;
 protected:
   virtual void apply_delta(const ceph::bufferlist &bl) = 0;
+  virtual std::ostream &print_detail_l(std::ostream &out) const {
+    return out;
+  }
 
 private:
   laddr_t laddr = L_ADDR_NULL;
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager.h
index a44f48fe96e..d9c68ef0c39 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager.h
@@ -88,10 +88,15 @@ public:
     Transaction &t,
     laddr_t off, extent_len_t len, paddr_t addr) = 0;
 
+
+  struct ref_update_result_t {
+    unsigned refcount = 0;
+    paddr_t addr;
+  };
   using ref_ertr = crimson::errorator<
     crimson::ct_error::enoent,
     crimson::ct_error::input_output_error>;
-  using ref_ret = ref_ertr::future<unsigned>;
+  using ref_ret = ref_ertr::future<ref_update_result_t>;
 
   /**
    * Decrements ref count on extent
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.cc
index 998ab256097..c90e41f058a 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.cc
@@ -356,16 +356,9 @@ BtreeLBAManager::update_refcount_ret BtreeLBAManager::update_refcount(
       lba_map_val_t out = in;
       ceph_assert((int)out.refcount + delta >= 0);
       out.refcount += delta;
-      if (out.refcount == 0) {
-	return std::optional<lba_map_val_t>();
-      } else {
-	return std::optional<lba_map_val_t>(out);
-      }
+      return out;
     }).safe_then([](auto result) {
-      if (!result)
-	return 0u;
-      else
-	return result->refcount;
+      return ref_update_result_t{result.refcount, result.paddr};
     });
 }
 
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.h
index 4a01d7fe3a7..720f3ae4e79 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/btree_lba_manager.h
@@ -145,7 +145,7 @@ private:
    * Updates mapping, removes if f returns nullopt
    */
   using update_mapping_ertr = ref_ertr;
-  using update_mapping_ret = ref_ertr::future<std::optional<lba_map_val_t>>;
+  using update_mapping_ret = ref_ertr::future<lba_map_val_t>;
   using update_func_t = LBANode::mutate_func_t;
   update_mapping_ret update_mapping(
     Transaction &t,
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node.h
index 68c7d23a672..55860544d41 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node.h
@@ -129,9 +129,9 @@ struct LBANode : CachedExtent {
     crimson::ct_error::input_output_error
     >;
   using mutate_mapping_ret = mutate_mapping_ertr::future<
-    std::optional<lba_map_val_t>>;
+    lba_map_val_t>;
   using mutate_func_t = std::function<
-    std::optional<lba_map_val_t>(const lba_map_val_t &v)
+    lba_map_val_t(const lba_map_val_t &v)
     >;
   virtual mutate_mapping_ret mutate_mapping(
     op_context_t c,
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node_impl.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node_impl.cc
index 9f138b0c1ce..b31dfcf762d 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node_impl.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/lba_manager/btree/lba_btree_node_impl.cc
@@ -404,15 +404,12 @@ LBALeafNode::mutate_mapping_ret LBALeafNode::mutate_mapping(
   ceph_assert(!at_min_capacity());
   auto mutation_pt = find(laddr);
   if (mutation_pt == end()) {
-    ceph_assert(0 == "should be impossible");
-    return mutate_mapping_ret(
-      mutate_mapping_ertr::ready_future_marker{},
-      std::nullopt);
+    return crimson::ct_error::enoent::make();
   }
 
   auto mutated = f(mutation_pt.get_val());
-  if (mutated) {
-    journal_update(mutation_pt, *mutated, maybe_get_delta_buffer());
+  if (mutated.refcount > 0) {
+    journal_update(mutation_pt, mutated, maybe_get_delta_buffer());
     return mutate_mapping_ret(
       mutate_mapping_ertr::ready_future_marker{},
       mutated);
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.cc
index b2ce3a76696..40c54455fd0 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.cc
@@ -13,6 +13,8 @@ std::ostream &segment_to_stream(std::ostream &out, const segment_id_t &t)
     return out << "BLOCK_REL_SEG";
   else if (t == RECORD_REL_SEG_ID)
     return out << "RECORD_REL_SEG";
+  else if (t == FAKE_SEG_ID)
+    return out << "FAKE_SEG";
   else
     return out << t;
 }
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.h
index 90b753695d6..70f41ab20a5 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/seastore_types.h
@@ -28,6 +28,10 @@ constexpr segment_id_t RECORD_REL_SEG_ID =
 constexpr segment_id_t BLOCK_REL_SEG_ID =
   std::numeric_limits<segment_id_t>::max() - 3;
 
+// for tests which generate fake paddrs
+constexpr segment_id_t FAKE_SEG_ID =
+  std::numeric_limits<segment_id_t>::max() - 4;
+
 std::ostream &segment_to_stream(std::ostream &, const segment_id_t &t);
 
 // Offset within a segment on disk, see SegmentManager
@@ -151,6 +155,9 @@ constexpr paddr_t make_record_relative_paddr(segment_off_t off) {
 constexpr paddr_t make_block_relative_paddr(segment_off_t off) {
   return paddr_t{BLOCK_REL_SEG_ID, off};
 }
+constexpr paddr_t make_fake_paddr(segment_off_t off) {
+  return paddr_t{FAKE_SEG_ID, off};
+}
 
 struct paddr_le_t {
   ceph_le32 segment = init_le32(NULL_SEG_ID);
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.cc b/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.cc
index 65f9377088c..82a4d3de327 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.cc
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.cc
@@ -95,8 +95,9 @@ TransactionManager::ref_ret TransactionManager::inc_ref(
   Transaction &t,
   LogicalCachedExtentRef &ref)
 {
-  return lba_manager.incref_extent(t, ref->get_laddr()
-  ).handle_error(
+  return lba_manager.incref_extent(t, ref->get_laddr()).safe_then([](auto r) {
+    return r.refcount;
+  }).handle_error(
     ref_ertr::pass_further{},
     ct_error::all_same_way([](auto e) {
       ceph_assert(0 == "unhandled error, TODO");
@@ -107,27 +108,42 @@ TransactionManager::ref_ret TransactionManager::inc_ref(
   Transaction &t,
   laddr_t offset)
 {
-  return lba_manager.incref_extent(t, offset);
+  return lba_manager.incref_extent(t, offset).safe_then([](auto result) {
+    return result.refcount;
+  });
 }
 
 TransactionManager::ref_ret TransactionManager::dec_ref(
   Transaction &t,
   LogicalCachedExtentRef &ref)
 {
-  return dec_ref(t, ref->get_laddr()
-  ).handle_error(
-    ref_ertr::pass_further{},
-    ct_error::all_same_way([](auto e) {
-      ceph_assert(0 == "unhandled error, TODO");
-    }));
+  return lba_manager.decref_extent(t, ref->get_laddr()
+  ).safe_then([this, &t, ref](auto ret) {
+    if (ret.refcount == 0) {
+      cache.retire_extent(t, ref);
+    }
+    return ret.refcount;
+  });
 }
 
 TransactionManager::ref_ret TransactionManager::dec_ref(
   Transaction &t,
   laddr_t offset)
 {
-  // TODO: need to retire the extent (only) if it's live, will need cache call
-  return lba_manager.decref_extent(t, offset);
+  return lba_manager.decref_extent(t, offset
+  ).safe_then([this, &t](auto result) -> ref_ret {
+    if (result.refcount == 0) {
+      return cache.retire_extent_if_cached(t, result.addr).safe_then([] {
+	return ref_ret(
+	  ref_ertr::ready_future_marker{},
+	  0);
+      });
+    } else {
+      return ref_ret(
+	ref_ertr::ready_future_marker{},
+	result.refcount);
+    }
+  });
 }
 
 TransactionManager::submit_transaction_ertr::future<>
diff --git a/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.h b/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.h
index 011d3d3b384..c9c2eb0f594 100644
--- a/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.h
+++ b/src/crimson/os/seastore/transaction_manager.h
@@ -143,8 +143,9 @@ public:
     return ret;
   }
 
+
   using ref_ertr = LBAManager::ref_ertr;
-  using ref_ret = LBAManager::ref_ret;
+  using ref_ret = ref_ertr::future<unsigned>;
 
   /// Add refcount for ref
   ref_ret inc_ref(
diff --git a/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_btree_lba_manager.cc b/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_btree_lba_manager.cc
index 264606975b1..4381ef55750 100644
--- a/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_btree_lba_manager.cc
+++ b/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_btree_lba_manager.cc
@@ -147,6 +147,12 @@ struct btree_lba_manager_test :
     );
   }
 
+  segment_off_t next_off = 0;
+  paddr_t get_paddr() {
+    next_off += block_size;
+    return make_fake_paddr(next_off);
+  }
+
   auto alloc_mapping(
     test_transaction_t &t,
     laddr_t hint,
@@ -208,7 +214,7 @@ struct btree_lba_manager_test :
 
     auto refcnt = lba_manager->decref_extent(
       *t.t,
-      target->first).unsafe_get0();
+      target->first).unsafe_get0().refcount;
     EXPECT_EQ(refcnt, target->second.refcount);
     if (target->second.refcount == 0) {
       t.mappings.erase(target);
@@ -222,7 +228,7 @@ struct btree_lba_manager_test :
     target->second.refcount++;
     auto refcnt = lba_manager->incref_extent(
       *t.t,
-      target->first).unsafe_get0();
+      target->first).unsafe_get0().refcount;
     EXPECT_EQ(refcnt, target->second.refcount);
   }
 
@@ -258,13 +264,12 @@ TEST_F(btree_lba_manager_test, basic)
 {
   run_async([this] {
     laddr_t laddr = 0x12345678 * block_size;
-    paddr_t paddr = { 1, static_cast<segment_off_t>(block_size * 10) };
     {
       // write initial mapping
       auto t = create_transaction();
       check_mappings(t);  // check in progress transaction sees mapping
       check_mappings();   // check concurrent does not
-      auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, laddr, block_size, paddr);
+      auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, laddr, block_size, get_paddr());
       submit_test_transaction(std::move(t));
     }
     check_mappings();     // check new transaction post commit sees it
@@ -278,7 +283,7 @@ TEST_F(btree_lba_manager_test, force_split)
       auto t = create_transaction();
       logger().debug("opened transaction");
       for (unsigned j = 0; j < 5; ++j) {
-	auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, 0, block_size, P_ADDR_MIN);
+	auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, 0, block_size, get_paddr());
 	if ((i % 10 == 0) && (j == 3)) {
 	  check_mappings(t);
 	  check_mappings();
@@ -298,7 +303,7 @@ TEST_F(btree_lba_manager_test, force_split_merge)
       auto t = create_transaction();
       logger().debug("opened transaction");
       for (unsigned j = 0; j < 5; ++j) {
-	auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, 0, block_size, P_ADDR_MIN);
+	auto ret = alloc_mapping(t, 0, block_size, get_paddr());
 	// just to speed things up a bit
 	if ((i % 100 == 0) && (j == 3)) {
 	  check_mappings(t);
diff --git a/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_transaction_manager.cc b/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_transaction_manager.cc
index d086c4ca348..076d7ad2dce 100644
--- a/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_transaction_manager.cc
+++ b/src/test/crimson/seastore/test_transaction_manager.cc
@@ -278,6 +278,38 @@ TEST_F(transaction_manager_test_t, mutate)
   });
 }
 
+TEST_F(transaction_manager_test_t, create_remove_same_transaction)
+{
+  constexpr laddr_t SIZE = 4096;
+  run_async([this] {
+    constexpr laddr_t ADDR = 0xFF * SIZE;
+    {
+      auto t = create_transaction();
+      auto extent = alloc_extent(
+	t,
+	ADDR,
+	SIZE,
+	'a');
+      ASSERT_EQ(ADDR, extent->get_laddr());
+      check_mappings(t);
+      dec_ref(t, ADDR);
+      check_mappings(t);
+
+      extent = alloc_extent(
+	t,
+	ADDR,
+	SIZE,
+	'a');
+
+      submit_transaction(std::move(t));
+      check_mappings();
+    }
+    replay();
+    check_mappings();
+  });
+}
+
+
 TEST_F(transaction_manager_test_t, inc_dec_ref)
 {
   constexpr laddr_t SIZE = 4096;